I have a gallery of split keyboards, including this one. It's useful if you need an overview of what's available.
I have an ErgoDash with a Dvorak layout and a 3D printed adjustable tenting stand. The Djinn is fairly similar, though the additions are features I don't care for (encoders, screens, LEDs).
I've bought most of the parts to make a Lagrange, but still need to order the PCBs. I expect this to be an improvement on the ErgoDash, since I can include the missing keys (F1-F12 etc).
Just buying a Kinesis Advantage2 would probably have been a whole lot less effort.
Of course, I need to do a better job at advertising and keeping up with trends like OLED screens and rotary knobs. But as a plain-Jane Bluetooth split ortho keyboard, I fervently enjoy typing on it.
I'm typing on an UHK v1 right now. I've been using it for a year or so and I love it.
As the other commenter said is just a really high quality split keyboard with great software.
I would really recommend anyone who looks into buying one to also buy the palm rest since it's a pretty thick keyboard. I use a tenting setup and I don't think I would be able to do it comfortably without the palm rests.
A few months ago the key cluster arrived as well - it feels kind of gimmicky though since all I use it for is play/pause/next song and to switch to my chat workspace. Others might have better use for it though. The scroll wheel is nice but I'm already used to the mouse layer on the keyboard, so I seldom use it.
My only gripe is the USB-connection. The v1 uses a mini-USB connection that I felt would be the first thing to break on the keyboard (since the rest of the keyboard feels like it would outlive me), so I soldered one of those magnetic cable heads to the keyboard and bought a few cables that I have lying at every desktop I use, "mag-safe".
I’ve used one for over a year and love it. Their software is easy to use for rebinding keys and setting up layers, the build quality is great, and the tented configuration has helped me with occasional wrist pain.
I haven’t used the new UHK, any of their addons, or the palm rest, so I can’t speak to those.
Did you use any other comparable keyboards beforehand and how did they compare? And which switches did you get. I borrowed a daskeyboard [0] from a friend with Cherry Brown switches which I like but I think a little more actuation force would be nice. Do you know anything about the Brown Boxed which uhk offers? Are they exactly the same as the regular ones except with more actuation force?
I looked at some other split keyboards online and determined the UHK would be best for me because of their customization software (UHK agent), adjustable feet for tenting, and module system. My UHK has their brown switches because I didn’t enjoy the blues I was using before. They seem just like cherry mx browns to me.
I haven't used that keyboard or those switches, but when I was building my own (from a kit) I purchased a "switch tester" with about 80 different keys. I found the type I liked, then sold the tester for about 90% of what it cost -- I think I used /r/MechMarket to do that.
This one is hilarious, the design caught my eye with its unique shape and the mandatory pro-Mormon proclamation (which at first I thought was a joke about the shape of the hands on the keyboard being prayer-like) until the creator told me to repent my sins.
interestingly the project name is used (with various spellings) to have a Koranic meaning approximately of a unaligned or as yet not spiritually directed spirit : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn
Wow. That’s quite the collection. I thought it was a splurge to buy my first Kinesis about 22 years ago. Since upgraded it to the USB (always the Advantage style) and love it.
ergonomic keyboard design surely is begging someone to write their thesis on the subjects involved with figuring out the difference between individual preference and the non empirical / subjective measures of preference and selection priority.
I have always believed that the problem with ergonomic keyboard design could be solved for a majority of cases with one single design, optimised over a number of generations rapidly in about 3 years (or a more optimal period allowing you to iterate retail cycles and customer reviews and reactions as well as observations in actual use) and make a excellent long term investment for a relatively small amount of capital.
the capital amount of course wouldn't be small in every individual view of small, but I can definitely imagine the required capital investment can be kept in check within less than -$3mm and return overall very well real inflation adjusted over a very decent length of time.
(i tend to presume the existence of very strong IP law knowledge in the design and development and management team - this i would like to be overlapping roles - but about one third of the capital in any project like this would be allocated by me to legal and IP rights protection in any event because you don't want to be responsible for that with only product development experience no matter how well educated in IP law and practice you are . Product liability and environmental and ethical concerns would receive a significant budget today as well , especially when everything is outsourced (Logitech since 30 years effectively in the beginning ...)
I think this isn't a one size fits all thing. Hand sizes are different. Some appear to be more prone to RSI. Some use emacs. Might be some placebo effect as well. Happy to be proven wrong.
I may need to go through the whole list and mark more of them as unavailable, but in theory the ones under "Mass Produced" should be available fairly quickly from a large enough retailer that your employer would be willing to buy them.
The ones under "Assembled" are from small businesses or side businesses, or at times may be unavailable for months, or have week+ delays before delivery. There are some companies like https://falba.tech/ (EU) and https://bastardkb.com/ (Canada?) who make several models.
The Moonlander is another recent option. Had mine for a few months and absolutely love it but it’s also my first split so not much for me to compare to.
I have the Moonlander split keyboard, and absolutely love it. But the problem I constantly have with split keyboards is keeping them aligned the right way. Each half is constantly being pushed and shifted or rotated slightly on my desk so it feels like the alignment is a little off every time I sit down to use it. The infinite adjustability is definitely a perk but I feel like I should be taping them down once I get them set up
It is not because of the split design - it’s because of the ortholinear layout. Classical staggered layout is much more tolerant to the posture and angle.
That is my observation. I have Ergodox, Planck and X-Bows, all of them are non-staggered. I noticed that I had an urge to adjust either keyboard or my posture constantly. On the other hand I’m comfortable with a traditional staggered keyboard at any angle and position.
Non-staggered is very comfortable as soon as you keep you fingers along the columns. But is you move a little bit - you have to adjust the keyboard.
I know what you mean. I solved the issue with a specially designed adjustable linkage on the Lagrange (https://github.com/dpapavas/lagrange-keyboard). It took a while to finetune the relative position anf attitude (which, turned out to be what one'd expect: 0° toe, separation at about shoulder width), but now it's finally consistently aligned every time. (The palm keys also help by doubling as guides to keep your hands in the right place.)
I've got a bunch of ergo tented boards with very little desk contact area - I actually spent all of last week typing on a borrowed Moonlander.
To solve the problem you describe I use a non-slip material by a company called Dycem[0], which I understand is primarily used by amputees and people with limited use of their limbs.
I've always gotten that niggly 'slight misalignment' feeling, ever since my first Ergodox 7-8 years ago. I know exactly what you're talking about and Dycem almost completely eliminates this for me. I lay my wrist rests and my board on it, and can make intentional microadjustments as I type, but those stay in place for weeks as long as I don't accidentally knock them out of place.
It's not cheap and there may be other similar alternatives, but I can say this one works.
Where are all the 75% ortholinear split keyboards? All the super-duper ergo boards have very few keys and/or a strange layout (like this Djinn).
Currently the best keyboard for my left forearm's RSI has been Mistel Barocco MD770 [1] but I've recently been aware how the staggering maybe forces the fingers to travel in slightly unnatural ways. These videos [2][3] from Ben Vallack demonstrate this nicely.
Thus, I'd like to test an ortholinear one, but with all the normal 75%/tenkeyless board keys in place. I personally don't need to optimize the right hand keys as much so I'm not interested in learning an oherwise crazy new layout just to test out if the ortholinearity helps. And, I really like having the split since keeping two halves of the board further apart helps keeping my posture in control. But this combo seems to be difficult to find.
My RSI was mostly solved by switching from a split keyboard to a tenting keyboard (Goldtouch V2 at 30-degree tenting angle) and a vertical mouse (Evoluent). Then it was finally solved by strength training of my back and shoulders (10 sessions of "Body Pump" fitness class and ongoing maintenance). Maybe those things would work for you, too?
If I could get an ErgoDox with Trackpoint, I would be all set. Sadly, it seems, they do not have a Trackpoint integration. The only commercially available I know is the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard V2, but I like the ErgoDox more. And they offer it only as an addon device.
Yes, that's what I meant: Thinkpads, typically, have a little red knob in the keyboard center, which is a tactile device, that lets the user control the mouse cursor very precisely. The patent has expired and this is why some third party vendors started producing them.
I am considering properly learning an ergonomic keyboard, but I like the minimalist ones - like the GergoPlex. They are more affordable and there is something appealing in minimizing the finger movement.
I used a Levinson[0] for about a year and then switched to a Kyria[1] in August. My Kyria is fully wireless by using two nice!nano microcontrollers and ZMK firmware. I absolutely love small keyboards like this. It takes a couple days/weeks to get used to the positions of everything, but once you do it's amazing. Not having to move your hands/wrists constantly is a game changer. I've ordered PCB's for a Ferris Sweep[2] and plan on building it soon.
Long time ergodox user here. I was considering getting a GergoPlex before Covid as I was travelling a bit for work. I even put a "GergoPlex" layer on my ergodox to practice.
However, it looks like they no longer sell the "heavy" and with Covid I haven't been travelling, no practicing the Gergo chords.
I've found that the annoying thing with these floating split keyboards is that you don't develop the muscle memory because the keys are always in a slightly different position each time it moves around.
You need a bracket to keep the halves in exactly the same spot every time when you're in split mode in order to get that muscle memory.
In a week or so, QMK will pick up a whole bunch of new support for pointing devices -- Djinn's open-source, so if you're keen you can swap a display out for a Cirque touchpad for instance.
I would love something like that, either touch trackpad or some trackball with easy way to left click and right click. No more switching between "two different input devices".
I tried building custom keyboards! It was a lot of fun waiting for parts, assembling and customizing them. And if nothing it was the best soldering training ever cos I got really good at soldering in the end.
I guess I'm a bit odd, but what I really want is a split version of Apples Magic Keyboard- extremely thin/flat and small, but with enough keys that I don't have to learn layers to type. I'm using a Kinesis Freestyle2 keyboard now, and, while I appreciate how comfy it is, it takes up a good portion of my desk.
An app which has, in my use through a few years, been truly stellar in its flexibility and stability. Very highly recommended. It's not particularly user-friendly for complex key-chords, but you can get very very complex with enough elbow grease or by making a config-generator.
You're already using 'layers' to type uppercase, symbols, accented characters, etc. A keyboard would easily double (or more) the numbers of keys to not have 'layers'.
I am frustrated that many of these new, innovative keyboards require people to use layers to access arrow keys, which I think would not be good for my hands.
Besides reducing the number of keys, are layers good for anything else? Are there any websites with layers designed for specific editors, etc?
> Besides reducing the number of keys, are layers good for anything else?
The most significant advantage, IMO, is allowing for reduced hand movement. -- e.g. enabling access to cursor keys or a number pad without needing to move your hand.
To an extent, layers also allow reducing usage of the (weak) pinky fingers in favour of the other fingers.
I have "move to previous virtual desktop", "move to next virtual desktop" with convenient key-chords; but these could be put on a layer as well.
I think "layers for specific editors" is unlikely. These split keyboards are great for "both hands on keyboard" tasks, but much harder for "mouse + keyboard" programs with QWERTY-specific keybindings, like Blender or whatever CAD.
The reduced number of keys has some benefits: the keyboard takes up much less desk space. With the DIY keyboards it allows for a lower cost: smaller number of keys also allows for a smaller PCB, and not needing to order as many key switches.
I use layers for a more comfortable layout of various brackets, IP address elements, coding symbols and snippets, and keyboard automations (essentially macros).
I use several different machines regularly (mix of Windows, MacOS, and Linux) and it is great to just have my custom stuff with me at all times. Macros are the only thing that is OS specific.
Though, when someone says "I don't want a keyboard with layers", it's obtuse to say "you don't want the shift key?!".
Many things in tech are trade-offs. There are big benefits which come with using layering, but there are also some downsides.
It's entirely reasonable for someone to prefer a more traditional keyboard layout, over a more niche keyboard layout which would take some time to get used to.
Who said “you don’t want the shift key?” That’s right, only you. Good strawperson argument.
It’s not obtuse to frame “layers” into something the person is probably already familiar with. Even if they still end up disliking layers (that’s fine!) it helps bridge the gap on different keyboard layouts.
I realize that the positioning of the ErgoDox thumb clusters aren't for everyone (I only use the two big keys), but I use the thumb keys a lot. In combination with QMK, my thumbs work a lot harder, but I feel it is much more efficient. This design lacks the "thumb power".
Same for me, the ability to offload the most frequently used keys (space, return, backspace, shift, ctrl/meta/super) from the pinkies to the thumbs is probably the greatest benefit of a good split design (Datahand in my case)
I would love something like the old SK-6000 keyboard ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/264750292234 ), maybe without the numpad, but with all other keys, and possibly mechanical (silent) switches.
It seems that nowadays we get either extremely peculiar split keyboards (without F-Keys, PgUp/PgDown) or something just doesn't feel right (PgUp/PgDown keys aligned vertically instead of horizontally, cursor keys with strange alignments and positioning, et cetera). I think that a "normal keyboard just with a certain angle in the middle" would be simple enough and great.
There's also MS Sculpt, with better keys: still rubberdomed, but less jiggly and way less clacky. The crowded home—pagedown column is actually alright once you get used to it, and I really don't use ‘delete’ and ‘insert’ much. However, the function-or-media switch is atrocious, pure disgrace as a design decision. I'm using ‘USB Overdrive’ to map ‘calculator’ to Fn instead, but it's still not the same. Might map the separate numpad, once I find batteries for it.
I vaguely think actually that the switch could be DIY-replaced with a button, to obtain proper Fn (or the reverse). Though this would likely entail some soldering on the PCB, and I'm not good with soldering.
which I loved, but have not found a good replacement, they are either split with a smaller angle or are those peculiar fully split ones as you mention.
My white whale is a split ortho linear with F-row. Evidently the market has spoken that if you want something non-traditional, it must go for minimal key count, because chording.
I very much like the idea of the joysticks under thumbs. Modifiers don't need to be keys! Space and finger motions are instantly saved; such a great idea! But likely it requires certain patches in the QMK code. This also obviously eliminates the need for mouse, very useful.
I also like the straight columns and intensive staggering, they help (me) type without looking more easily.
What I find extraneous is all these screens and LEDs. I see that for many such keyboards are for showing off; for me they are a tool, and the very point of touch typing is that I don't need to keep the keys in my field of view!
I use LEDs as state indicators similar to caps/scroll/num lock, but in my case it’s obvious what state I’m in without even looking, due to the brightness (enough I can see from the corner of my eyes). State is more important due to the use of vim-like layers
Now I gotta somehow try that with a gamepad. Driving simulation, coming to your desktop. Traverse the lands of hyperlinks, deliver files from window to window.
I'm RSI-adjacent (never diagnosed, but flat keyboards give me pangs after a while) and have a ~6 year old home-made Ergodox currently, and really like it (though I have to admit, there's a definite cognitive overhead switching between QWERTY on my laptop, productivity-focussed split, and gaming-focussed split that gets annoying sometimes). At the time I built it, it seemed like a cheaper way of checking if one of these things would help than grabbing a Kinesis.
I've been kind of thinking about upgrading for a while though, and there's an accretion of new features building up that are starting to make the idea seem a little less wasteful. The new generation designs like this that have an integrated screen for extra data _really_ appeal (my Ergodox is pre-RGB/backlighting, so you can't tell the keyboard's state at a glance); that, combined with hot-swappable key sockets, novel input mechanisms (rotary encoders for volume/Lightroom control!), the sort of tenting support the ZSA Moonlander supports etc. are all pretty exciting.
I've never quite managed to convince myself to spend time on keyboards as a hobby, but I'm so grateful others love it.
Only a couple of parts are actually dependent on the side you're soldering (and are listed on the parts BOM), virtually everything else is aligned in such a way that it can be soldered onto either side.
Been using a Keebio Iris[0] (here's my build[1]) for the last 3 years and so, which I've initially built in an attempt to mitigate some nerve pressure issues in the elbow (I have ulnar nerve hypermobility in both arms on top of relatively broad shoulders, so common typing position gets really uncomfortable/painful over time). Long story short, combined with some hand/shoulder strengthening exercises and proper posture, it definitely helps alleviate the pressure.
[0] https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard - looks like the pcb design got a couple of updates since I've built mine, like onboard controller and usb-c, etc.
[1] https://imgur.com/a/k72o4p3
After many hours of research on switch type (because I don't like noise or high pressure on keys) and some modding to the height lower it turned out pretty good.
Would recommend to anyone whose livelihood depends on what they type on the computer.
I'm very happy with the matias ergopro and am finishing up a design for a slightly larger than full size split keyboard using matias (alps style) switches. I'm adding an extra inner column on the left and right sides with duplicated keys from the other side. I got used to using either hand for those central keys on a normal keyboard so being able to use them that way on a split seems like a good thing to me. Since it's bigger, it'll be a bit pricey to build so I'm tempted to throw together one of those tiny keyboards with the reversible PCBs just for fun.
I have the ErgoDox EZ Shine split keyboard and use it with a custom Dvorak layout that I created for it inspired by the layout of the keyboard I used to use before it, the TypeMatrix 2030 USB.
The biggest advantage is freely positioning the halves to suit your personal preference. You might have them in a /\ arrangement next to each other, or | | so that they match the position of your shoulders. I'm currently sitting in a rocking chair with my laptop on a small desk and the halves of my split keyboard on my legs, which works surprisingly well. When I'm on the move without an ergonomic desk, I tend to put my laptop on a cardboard box to avoid having to look down all day, and my keyboard halves on each side. It helps me avoid neck strain.
For me, getting a split keyboard was a matter of protecting my hands. I felt strain in my wrists and fingers when using a regular keyboard all day. With a split keyboard my wrists can stay straight and I was forced to learn the correct finger positions. I no longer use a mouse, but instead my keyboard's mouse layer keys, so I have no reason to move my hands away from the home position.
Of course most of the split keyboards, being made for enthusiasts, also contain a lot of other features like customisable firmwares and such.
- More keys for the thumbs allows for using the thumbs more instead of the (weaker) pinky fingers.
- I like symmetrical keyboards; it's more comfortable than the standard row-stagger.
- The custom firmware has some nice features which allow for reducing hand movement. e.g. putting a numpad layer where your hands rest. e.g. I have "go to prev/next virtual desktop" when I hit the keys "cv" or "m,".
- The keyboard firmware is on the keyboard itself. This is nice if you switch between different computers.
- More desk space for e.g. notes between the split halves.
Disadvantages:
- In the same way that e.g. a Vim config can be ultra-personalised to the point no one else can use it, the same applies to split keyboards.
- Mechanical keys can be quite loud.
- The keyboards are either DIY, expensive, or both. They can be quite difficult to acquire.
- It can take some time to adjust to a new layout. Moreso if you've not done per-finger typing practice with e.g. Dvorak layout.
- It's more difficult to use with "keyboard + mouse" programs like Blender, CAD, or videogames, which use QWERTY keybindings.
- As with any external keyboard, difficult/awkward to use with laptops e.g. at a cafe.
I really wish someone would make a modular kit for split ergo boards.
Column stagger and thumb cluster placement are so personal and anyone switching to split ergo boards is forced to make compromises or spend insane amounts of money until they find the exact combo that suits them.
PSA: anyone looking for better ergonomics and want truly split distance, try two keyboards plugged in at the same time. It’s a game changer and doesn’t cost hundreds of dollars. Linux works out of the box. There’s ways to make the modifier keys shared for mac.
I've been eyeing the Djinn for a while, a "while" that corresponds with the crazy chip shortage. So I've put it on the back burner, but anyone build this or another keyboard recently? How's it look for the parts these days?
Right now, none really -- it's a hardware enablement testbed, and really only shows a handful of information, such as Caps/Num/Scroll and what layer you're using.
With QMK we get a lot of requests for "how do I display this", "how do I show that", so it's more a case of making sure it supports most of those scenarios.
Sadly with the silicon shortages, not a lot of people are getting the chance to build them... I'm sure we'd see some interesting usages if/when this display stuff becomes a bit more mainstream.
Yeah, I have a Lily58 and this appeals to me since I would actually like one more column. Mine was pre-made and has an encoder where I would like my "[" to be so this would also help solve a problem I'm not too well equipped to solve. And since I'm not really up to procuring the equipment and time to learn to solder I would love to buy one of these pre-made: anyone know where I can buy a pre-built version?
https://ergomech.store/shop/product/lily58-3 - as far sa I understand since it has hotswap sockets you don't need to solder if you get the "pre-assembled" version, but still need to get your own switches and keycaps.
None that I'm aware of. And I don't plan on running one of my own -- too many other things going on.
That said, I ended up creating a Discord months ago after a whole bunch of people were going to run their own GB, needed a place to "host" it... never eventuated due to the COVID logistics problem.
I also have videos typing a more difficult symbol-heavy JavaScript program. I was as the same slow speed between a standard keyboard, and this little split keyboard.
No videos, but I have a Lily58 Pro, which is very similar to this. It took me a few weeks to figure out a good layout, but after that I've been typing at full speed ever since.
I have an ErgoDash with a Dvorak layout and a 3D printed adjustable tenting stand. The Djinn is fairly similar, though the additions are features I don't care for (encoders, screens, LEDs).
I've bought most of the parts to make a Lagrange, but still need to order the PCBs. I expect this to be an improvement on the ErgoDash, since I can include the missing keys (F1-F12 etc).
Just buying a Kinesis Advantage2 would probably have been a whole lot less effort.
https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
(And a discussion from nine months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26179311 )